Talk:Anfal genocide

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I like how you "remove offensive wording" everywhere, Kassem.[edit]

Then invoke NPOV under false pretenses, while changing words like "expel" to "relocate." Again, you will cease this deliberate editing of NPOV wording into Wikipedia articles, or I will personally take you before mediation and/or arbitration.

Saddam Hussein[edit]

I'm not sure "Hussein" should be used wherever his name stands alone. See here Avalon 23:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

two articles about the same topic[edit]

hi, there is a second article about the anfal campain with the name 1988 Anfal campaign. can anyone put these two articles together? KureCewlik81 15:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

  • There were actually several phases to the Anfal Campaign, which took place between 1986 and 1989... I have read that the events of 1988 were the most deadly during the campaign Garr1984 04:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)§


This section should be reviewed and updated with better verifiable facts. I just did a quick check of a source and revised the number of churches destroyed during this campaign. I also checked a few other sources that ought to be replaced by better/more trustworthy sources. fno 07:32, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Only one side of the story[edit]

This article, and the other similar article, only quotes sources from the Kurdish side of the story. What is the context of these killings? How do the Ba'athists explain themselves when questioned on this topic??-- 09:28, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I know that at Saddam Hussein's Arraignment, he said regarding the Anfal Campaign and more specifically the poison gas attack on Halabja, that he had "Heard about it" but had no further knowledge of it. I also know that there is an audio tape that has Chemical Ali talking about killing the kurds, saying, and I quote: "We will kill them all. We will kill them with chemical weapons. Who is going to do anything about it? The International Community?!? Fuck Them! Fuck Them And All Who Listen To Them!!! I will not attack them with chemicals just one day, but I will continue to attack them with chemicals for fifteen days." " and Saddam's voice can be heard on the tape saying something along the lines of "Yes, The Poison is Very Effective". I also know that, at any rate, Saddam thought the Kurds were in league with Iraq's Enemies, namely Iran, but I don't know how best to integrate this information into the article, or if it's even a good idea to do so. Garr1984 15:02, 2 July 2007 (UTC)§
  • Yes there is no context here whatsoever. Saddam Hussein acted within the context of an open rebellion against the central government in Baghdad. A better comparison would be what General Sherman did to the South during the American Civil War, rather than the Nazis' extermination of Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 15:17, August 22, 2007 (UTC)
  • There's no body of evidence showing that General Sherman tolerated rape or murder, though I'd suspect that rapes and murder occurred at a somewhat higher level than in civilian life. That's virtually inevitable, and absolutely nothing like a true rape atrocity or true massacre. He destroyed tons of property, and I mean tons. There doesn't seem to be a consensus that this led to the death of many civilians, though I'm sure it contributed to the death of at least a few dozen. In short the General was a proud and honorable soldier, clean as a whistle and no commiter of atrocities, whatever your view of his cause (I view it negatively). There can be no serious doubt that his ferociousness against civilian property shortened the war. He did invent 'total war', but only a fool could maintain that it would not have been invented soon anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:06, 15 September 2010 (UTC)


I noticed a link at the bottom of the page to the Halabja massacre. Does the Al-Anfal campaign include the Halabja massacre or is it entirely separate?

Part of the Anfal I. [1] --HanzoHattori 11:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC) anwser

Halabja was during the Iran Iraq war, Halabja was a scene of battle not part of An-Fal.

There are true evidences that more than 182 000 innocent Kurdish (Kurdistanian) men, women and children were buried alive in the brutal Anfal-campaign that Saddam's dictatorship made in the (Southern) Kurdistan (in Iraq). More than 4500 villages were levelled with the ground - it is simple a GENOCIDE against the KURDISTANIAN people, who are the Kurds, the Turkomen and the Assyrians.

  • History only tells one side of the story... the story they want us to hear... the fact of the matter is that these people were conspiring or at least sympathizing with Iraq's enemies, namely Iran, and Iran was also our enemy at the time. I am not saying that they had it coming, or that it was right for Saddam to commit these atrocities, it was not. It just seems to me that violence is all these people will ever understand... It it even foretold in the bible that as the descendants of Ishmael, Arabs would not be able to get with the descendants of Isaac (Christians and Jews), and that prophecy fulfills itself all over again on a daily basis. They can't even get along with each other. Garr1984 14:25, 12 July 2007 (UTC)§


There's a complete lack of references on this page. For something claiming to be a genocide of 182,000 human beings I'd expect a whole lot more than two references. 15:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

It is not a claim, Mr. Taliban Supporter from Sydney :). It has been documented extensively by the Human Rights Watch.Heja Helweda 01:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The anfal-camoaign destroyed more than 5,000 kurdish villiages across southern Kurdistan and more than 182,000 civilian Kurds have been buried alive in huge massgraves in southern Iraq, were the graves have been till today not been found.

Actually many graves were located. Such as this:[2] --HanzoHattori 15:51, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Can we have articles at least on Sultan Hashem Ahmed and Hussein Rashid Mohammed?[edit]

--HanzoHattori 20:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:KDP.gif[edit]

The image Image:KDP.gif is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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The following images also have this problem:

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --22:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

An image on this page may be deleted[edit]

This is an automated message regarding an image used on this page. The image File:Anfal1988assyrianchurch.jpg, found on Al-Anfal Campaign, has been nominated for deletion because it does not meet Wikipedia image policy. Please see the image description page for more details. If this message was sent in error (that is, the image is not up for deletion, or was left on the wrong talk page), please contact this bot's operator. STBotI (talk) 04:38, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Reason for the operation?[edit]

The article does not mention why Saddam launched this attack, what is the background to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:40, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Odd and confusing wording[edit]

Under "Name", we learn that

  1. Al-Anfal is the eighth sura or chapter of the Qur'an which explains the triumph of 319 followers of the new Muslim faith over almost 900 pagans at the battle of Badr in 624 AD.
  2. Al Anfal literally means the spoils (of war) and was used to describe the military campaign of extermination and looting commanded by Ali Hassan al-Majid.

Now, I happened by this page by accident and know nothing about this. But this wording seems to imply that "the military campaign of extermination and looting" actually took place in 624 AD ("was used" immediately after the mention of the battle of Badr...), which can't be true, since Ali Hassan al-Majid is a 20th century figure. Or were there two people with the same name? And if "the military campaign of extermination and looting" refers to the actual 20th century campaign this article is about, then that part of the second sentence is completely redundant. It should simply say "Al Anfal literally means the spoils (of war)."

Furthermore, there's another article, jash (which, by the way, looks like a candidate for AfD, unless there's a wealth of information on jash units), linked in the same paragraph, which states that "during the Battle of Badr in 624 AD, a military campaign of extermination and looting was commanded by Ali Hassan al-Majid". So were there two Ali Hassan al-Majids after all? --Jashiin (talk) 22:52, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


This article is deeply one-sided and presents the Kurdish/HRW point of view. A neutral article would also present the Baathist point of view and their reasons for the campaign. In the present form, it is as complete as would be, say, an article about War in Afghanistan (2001–present) if it only focused on the numbers of Afghan civilians and insurgent "massacred" by Americans, without mentioning 9/11. --Itinerant1 (talk) 00:02, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

No mention of Reagan selling Saddam chemical weapons materials[edit]

This article doesn't have a word about the Reagan administration selling biological and chemical weapons to Saddam. The shipments to Iraq went on even after Saddam ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja, in which at least 5,000 men, women and children died. The following article cites investigations by the U.S. Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs: Somehow I get the feeling that if Carter or Clinton had done this, Wikipedia would report it in detail. But when it comes to the GOP presidents, Wikipedia always whitewashes the record and gives them a pass. So much for "neutral point of view." —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

The truth doesn't need to be embellished[edit]

I feel the numbers in the second paragraph of the Summary are sensationalist and in part, self contradictory.

"The attacks were part of a long-standing campaign that destroyed approximately 4,500 Kurdish village in areas of northern Iraq and displaced at least a million of the country's estimated 3.5 million Kurdish population. Independent sources estimate 1,100,000 to more than 2,150,000 deaths and as many as 860,000 widows and an even greater number of orphans."

The first sentence establishes an estimated 3.5m pop, from which up to 2.15m or more are killed, leaving (a remaining?) 860K widows and 860K plus orphans. Applying the lower of two totals leaves only 380K or less in an 'other' category. If the higher of the two death statistics is taken then the combined total exceeds the 3.5m pop background figure. It’s also not clear what portion of the 1m displaced are included or excluded.

Other reputable sources cited within the article are nowhere near these numbers which seem to come from a single source. Exceptional claims should be substantiated by exceptional or multiple sources.

Skeptiod60 (talk) 04:06, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

File:Anfal campaing area.PNG[edit]

The map in the infobox which aims to show the areas targeted by al-Anfal operation are wrong.

I know, that at least the areas south of Kirkuk as well as the Makhmur district of Erbil governorate suffered under a heavy destruction during Anfal campaign by the Ba'ath regime. As sources, there is a case study by HRW ( as well as visual evidence by Many villages north and south of Makhmur are still today little more than dust and ruins.

Either we remove this map, or replace it with a better one.

Regards, Ermanarich (talk) 20:02, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 21 December 2018[edit]

Anfal genocideKurdish genocide of 1986-1989

The "Kurdish genocide" is probably the second most common name for this event; the yearing format is inspired by the Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66 article. the "Anfal genocide" titling is odd particularly the lower casing of genocide. It would be more typical to refer to the event as simply "Anfal" or "Kurdish genocide" and mixing them together like that just sounds unnatural. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GoBotsters (talkcontribs) 13:59, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Note: This RM didn't use the correct template, which was why it didn't go through. – Þjarkur (talk) 19:57, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Did Sweden recognise Anfal?[edit]

The Pravda source says that a unanimous decision to recognize the Anfal genocide was made December 5th, 2012, together with a decision to recognize West Sahara. However, the Riksdag protocol from the occasion says that the parliament decidet to (exhort the government to) recognize West Sahara, but that all other bills were turned down, including the ones about Anfal.

I have no explanation to the seemingly false statements of the Pravda source, and where similar claims on the web originates from. The other source gives a security warning when I try to access it. The same claim is on the Swedish Wikipedia, and I will raise the same question there. --St.nerol (talk) 21:48, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 6 May 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. No prejudice against speedy renomination should any supporting evidence be provided. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 09:36, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Anfal genocideKurdish genocide of 1986-1989 – See above Adam9007 (talk) 16:49, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose. No evidence presented that "Anfal genocide" is not the WP:COMMONNAME, and the article's sources seem to call it variants of that.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:09, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.